Superhero RPG Roundup Part 1 - Marvel-ish

 

I went down the rabbit hole these past few weeks to figure out which supers game I was going to run for the group. As is typical for me I went way overboard but it was a good excuse to see if there was anything new out there and also to take a second look at some of the more recent acquisitions I might have skimmed and dismissed.

One of the options I was considering was some version of the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes system. One, because I have fond memories of it. Two, because it's pretty easy to grasp and jump in and start throwing cars at bad guys. Three because there have been several efforts over the last ten years to retroclone it and so make it more available to people. Inevitably these do-overs include some rules changes just like the D&D retroclones do so the question usually is "do you like the changes?" because you presumably already like the underlying system or you wouldn't be looking at them. I do like the original so I started pulling up "4 Color" system games to see what was out there.

The oldest one I am aware of is the Four Color System from Seraphim Games. It is pretty much a straight distillation of the old rules, both basic and advanced, without any major additions. The downside is that it renames every.single.part. of the game and changes the colors of the results table, including using red and yellow for different levels of success than they were originally. So it's not FASERIP here, it would be MCBFIAW ... however you want to pronounce that. This really hurts the familiarity advantage for those of us who played the old one. I assume this is a product of it's time and an effort to avoid any taint of copyright infringement but to me personally it was pretty damaging. If you're not worried about carrying over the old familiar then it's a solid choice for a baseline MSH game.

There is also a 4C Expanded by a different author which takes a lot of the same concepts but breaks some things as well - for me at least. Instead of FASERIP your primary attributes are Might, Agility, Stamina, Strength, Intellect, Vision, and Ego ... so "MASSIVE" which is better than the prior version so points for that. The biggest problem for me though is this:

I mean, the colors are still wrong here AND we're dropping the glorious majesty of the full table for this abbreviated version that only shows the break points! Instead of column shifts you'd have row shifts and who wants that? More seriously the biggest objection some people have to the MSH rules is that they ran off of a chart. This still runs off of a chart, just a smaller one, so what is the benefit here?

Outside of these changes it also adds a point-buy option for character generation alongside the expected random tables. The general approach and tone are different though - it clearly wants to be a universal system and I believe a later version 2.0 really embraces this. Here though it still shows with optional rules for more "realistic" results, a lot more detail in skills, and a 25 page gear chapter. MSH was always about broad strokes to me so breaking down five different types of swords plus blowguns and chakrams ... it feels out of place in this system given the game's origins. It does have a nice section of NPCs, minor opposition, animals, and fantasy creatures and that's a nice inclusion. Overall it is comprehensive but it just goes in a direction I was not looking for in my MSH type game.  

The next entry is literally named FASERIP and has been out since 2016. As you can guess from the name it addresses one of my concerns with 4C by using a lot of the same terminology though it does change the rank names and it changes the Results table but it changes it to Bronze/Silver/Gold as the levels of success which while different is also incredibly intuitive - excellent choice here if you feel like you have to change it up. In the authors own words:

The rules of this game are not an exact replica of the rules of the game that it is emulating. While the majority of them are the same there are some differences. The main differences are that this game uses a different list of super powers and that it has a different method of generating characters. However, in play, the game retains the feel of the original game that it is emulating

The changes mentioned as far as creation is that the random generation options are mixed with some point buy options to allow players more control over how their heroes end up. It looks decent enough to me. Overall I like this one a lot and it is a complete supers game with examples, stock NPCs, and some alternate settings. It's laid out by someone who had a clue and remarkably it is free!

Next up was this one. That's a lot of title. "ZENITH COMICS PRESENTS: MIGHTY SUPER HEROES THE ROLE PLAYING GAME BETA-PLAYTEST EDITION" ... yeah. Sure. Great.

First up it's not pretty - it's a beta version and there's not a lot of layout flair and no art. That's fine. They do keep most of the rank names and the chart colors from the original - hallelujah! Task resolution does differ a bit though. From the rulebook:

When making a FEAT you take the Rank of your Ability (also called its Intensity) and compare it to the Rank of the opposing Ability (or Power, or item), and apply the difference as either a positive or negative (expressed as +/-CS) on the Universal Table, starting at the Column called Shift 0 (SH0).

So it's not the linear chart we are used to but something slightly different:

It assumes there will always be an opposing value which is quite different than the original game. 

Character generation is random with an option for modelling one after a known hero -  this boils down to make it up and let your GM look at it. 

The game adds a new stat "Dynamic" which is Charisma by another name. OK.

It also adds Callings, which is described as "why you do this" and can be tagged ala FATE to gain column shift bonuses by the hero or negatives or other trouble by the GM. Cool. The game also adds Weaknesses which are exactly what they sound like with potential negative mechanical impacts. It's a short list right now so maybe updates will solidify this section. There are also Contacts, another limited section, and Quirks, both positive and negative. Quirks are more like Hero or GURPS advantages and disadvantages so now it has that as well. 

There is an extensive Powers section as you might expect and it looks to be pretty well thought out with specific tasks, difficulties, and optional adjustments for each one.

There is some other innovative stuff here. Minion rules, a Villain Karma pool for the GM, and I like the idea of trying to innovate within the MSH framework in some ways.

I'm still not sure about that new approach to task resolution. Given that it expects an opposing value for every task, which effectively translates into column shifts, but there is also a table of column shift modifiers, I think it could get tricky adjudicating some situations. I think I like the approach the earlier system took and that some other similar retroclones take as well but it's not broken or bad in my eyes - just not the exact flavor I want.  

Alright after working my way through multiple FASERIP based games I can tell you this one was my favorite. It has all of the signature traits of the original - the rank names and structure is almost the same, the task resolution is the same, and the color chart is the same - off to a good start. They've taken "Intensity" from the advanced rules set and just incorporated it into the game as "Difficulty". The idea here is that if there is a difficulty rating you compare your relevant ability to that difficulty and if it is higher you still just need a green, if they are equal you need a yellow, and if it is higher you need a red (and if it is much higher you just can't do it). I think this works better than what Zenith is trying to do as it is just easier to grasp in my opinion. 

One significant addition here is the new stat "Resolve" - for social encounters. As damage is to Health, Stress is to Resolve. This opens up some space for characters to be mechanically better (or worse) than others in non-combat situations and I think it's a big gain for the game as there are some actual mechanics around it now.

The other big addition is the Profiles system. These are lifted pretty directly from the Marvel Heroic Roleplaying system (Cortex these days) and effectively replace the old Karma system:

I loved these in MHR once I figured them out and my players did too. Seeing them here really made me think about the impact they had on play and how it could work in this system and I am very much looking forward to trying them out when I get the chance. There are guidelines on how often each level can be earned and then a nice list of ways it can be spent much like the old system - everything from improving the results of a roll to shaking off stun to bringing in a contact to avoiding death ... for a time.

Character creation has two approaches right now - Narrative (or "just pick") and Random (with tables) and there are plans to add an archetype system as well. It looks fine for now and MSH never had a real point-based system anyway. The approach they have taken here is to put the character creation rules with all the power lists, talents, profiles, etc. in a separate book as you mostly use it during character creation. The main book for the game is all about running things so it can be a lot lighter than trying to put it all in to one. Makes sense to me.  Of course there is a GM chapter with advice on running the game and some options rules too so things might not be completely sorted out yet.

 So anyway there's a rundown of my journey through Marvel Retroclones. Lots of things to think about but I did find a clear favorite. More on those other systems I explored will be coming along presently.

Meme-ish Monday

 

Planning the Third Game

 

It has been quite a while since I've been in this position and I'm happy enough with it to write another post about it. So Deadlands is on 1st and 4th weekends and is back on track. 2nd weekends are Star Wars and that's humming right along too. So now the question is what to run on 3rd weekends ...

My inclination is to some kind of supers game. Running a regular ongoing superhero game has long been an elusive dream. I would likely choose Mutants & Masterminds but some noise was made that adding it to the rotation might be too much mechanically for everyone to keep straight.  Eh, maybe, but I think M&M plays pretty easily once you get going. It's not like I don't have other options but M&M is my "main", my general purpose superhero RPG, and I tend to think of the others as more niche options. If M&M is too much then I have to assume Champions is not even a question. I'm looking over Absolute Power (the Silver Age Sentinels second edition) but I'm not interested in running it just yet. ICONS could work maybe, maybe do a longer form Marvel Heroic campaign than I have been ... maybe give Godlike/Wild Talents the extended tryout it has deserved for years. I have ordered the latest superpowers book for Savage Worlds so that may get a look too.  I'm still not sure yet but I will figure something out.

The other note here was that one of my players pointed out I wasn't running a D&D game (Yay!) so maybe I should look at doing a fantasy campaign (Boo!). Now I don't hate fantasy but it has always been a blocker in that there had to be a D&D type campaign  going and then anything else was shoehorned in around it. I told him that if I did it would not be that kind of system or setting. I might consider Warhammer FRP, or maybe Sigmar, but clearly Fantasy Hero is not a good idea and I'm really not feeling Runequest or Pendragon right now. This is a "maybe" but I'm not really leaning this way.

Other candidates/mentions/requests:

• Savage Rifts - well sure but I think one Savage Worlds campaign at a time is enough. This is a strong candidate for the "when we finish Deadlands" slot.
• Cyberpunk/Shadowrun - one of my players is running a cyberpunk type game right now and I don't want to step on his toes. Definitely an interest down the road though.
• Star Trek - I'm running Star Wars already and I think another SF franchise that uses yet another system is probably more than we need. 
• Stars Without Number - I'd probably run this over Traveller and I like the idea more than another fantasy game but I'm not sure I like it better than Superheroes.

There are some long shots in the mix too like a MechWarrior campaign or Mekton or the 40K RPG or a Weird War II run and the possible triple shot of running three different Savage Worlds games in parallel at some point but for now I think those are unlikely.

Anyway, here's to thinking out loud online - more to come. 

Meme-ish Monday

 

40K Friday - The Coming Thing

 

I've been working on RPG stuff more lately than miniatures. A big chunk of the Necrons are done so the urgency is a little less at the moment. The hot topics right now are boarding actions, Arks of omen, and 10th edition so ...

The rumors are flying now about tenth. It's pretty clearly coming in June of this year based on past releases and multiple rumors from multiple sources. This makes it hard to get too excited about spending money and time on further 9th edition codexes. The Imperial Guard book is the last one I will pick up as I just can't justify the World Eaters book when it will be out of date in 4-5 months and I might not even play them in that time. The new edition is supposed to be a big reset rules-wise, like 8th was, with some kind of index-like approach like 8th as well so this isn't a case where codexes will roll over into the new edition until replaced by an update. At the moment it sounds like they will be unusable in tenth so ... yeah. 

Arks of Omen is in a weird place. It's mainly for 9th rules-wise but it's the big edition change-over storyline so I still want to get it for the fluff as much as or more than the rules. Knowing where the story is going is still interesting after all these years and so makes this a little more palatable then dead-on-arrival codexes at the end of an edition. I did start digging into Kill Team so I have the spaceship terrain for boarding actions - I should really paint that stuff up.

The starter box is rumored to be Marines vs. Tyranids which would be just fine by me. Tyranids are one of the few long-time armies I do not have so I'd say they will be my new army for tenth. Rumors disagree now on whether they're going to be presented as Blood Angels or Dark Angels but I doubt they're going to put any chapter-specific details into the starter box marines this time so it's more about what the art will show than anything else. 

There are more and more rumors that the Dark Angels Primarch is coming back. I'm pretty OK with this as it will give us a second example of what GW thinks a marine primarch should look like in the modern game and it will liven up the fluff situation with two of them back and potentially being rivals on some level. Time to get those lingering Dark Angels finished up!

The big one for me is the recently-popping up rumor that 10th will see the end of the Primaris/Firstborn distinction - they will just be "marines". This opens up so many possibilities within marine armies that it will be a lot of fun just exploring the options if true. Hellblasters in drop pods, Aggressors in Land Raiders, Assault Intercessors jumping out of Rhinos, Bladeguard in Stormravens ... lots of cool options added to the toolkit. Plus the elimination of some character redundancies like Primaris techmarine vs. Techmarine and the like, and let's not even think about all of the Space Marine Captain datasheets that could be excised. 

So while it's always tricky at the end of an edition I like what I'm seeing so far both now and for the future.  

More to come.

What's Going On in February

 

In recent weeks I've managed to run two sessions of FFG Star Wars and two sessions of Deadlands. It feels good to be back on track. The Deadlands campaign has now hit 19 sessions and this weekend will be the first "real" session of the new Star Wars campaign. 

For Deadlands I am running "The Flood" and it has gone pretty well even with some player turnover. I had 6 players at one point and we've lost two of those but added one new so we are still running with 5. This means we've had a ton of consistency and in a somewhat more "plotted " campaign that means a lot. Since it is a published run with a definite end I expect we will finish this one up later this year. The players have been really good about respecting "niches" and some of them have created some very memorable personalities. Lately they've been getting into some fun stuff like blowing up an ironclad and participating in the Shan Fan Kumite martial arts tournament. I really do need to put those session summaries together ...

For Star Wars I used the Edge of the Empire Beginner Game - which I had somehow never run, despite owning it for years -  to test out the system with my current group of players. It went over quite well even though the dice are hard to find right now. At the end of that run (which stretched over two sessions because we get sidetracked a lot and were learning a new system) we have a party with some experience and a ship of their own which had traveled to Bothawui - because that's where one of them is from. There will be some party shuffling as some of the characters were pre-gens and I expect those to be altered or outright replaced before we begin but we decided to continue onward from this point instead of starting completely new. I was fine with this as it gives them some grounding in the universe and a potential known adversary for Obligation purposes in Teemo the Hutt if they want to use him.

These guys look more and more like Traveller Aslan to me - anyone else see that?

The challenge here is that we decided to stay with mainly an Edge of the Empire type campaign where most of the campaign ideas I had written up in the past were more rebel-centric or set in the Clone Wars era and Jedi-centric. Right now we have no force users and the preference was to start right around the end of the republic. So, sketchy parts of galactic society right as the empire takes off ... yeah I have nothing written up specifically for that. So a big part of the RPG think-time these past couple of weeks has been how to start things off, where things could go down the road, and what places and groups are significant in this time period. I've spent more time on Wookiepedia this week than I have maybe ever and I have to admit it's been fun. I'll post more on the campaign planning later.

So yes it's been a pretty active January and February and it feels like we are finally rolling consistently again and everyone is invested in keeping it that way. It's a good place to be.

Meme-ish Monday

 

That New Marvel RPG - August 2023

 

I posted about it last year, what I thought would be the first of several, and then honestly I just ran out of gas. The more I looked at it the more it looked like "work" instead of fun and that's a bad sign when it comes to RPGs. The different but not -that- different dice mechanics, the weird mix of class and level elements into a superhero game in a modern release, and the unnecessarily complicated bunch of modifiers and  details just made it look un-fun. Just basic elements like "where is the skill system" ... well some of what you might consider skills are mixed into the stats ... ok fine ... but some are also in the "traits" system and some are mixed into powers. I looked at it, asked myself when was I ever going to run it, and decided the answer was "not anytime soon" so I put it on the shelf and mostly forgot about it while house-hunting and prepping for the move. 

This week we have a new announcement that the core rulebook is releasing this year with a big adventure and an X-Men supplement is coming next year. Alright, time to take another look - Nope! Still do not like it! Then I went and downloaded the latest rules revisions and, well, I have to say it looks a lot better than the first version. They got rid of archetypes! Excellent! They cut the 25 ranks (that looked a whole lot like M&Ms Power Levels) down to 6:

▶ Rank 1—Rookie: A regular person or a brand-new hero. 

▶ Rank 2—Protector: A character who protects a neighborhood, such as Daredevil or Iron Fist. 

▶ Rank 3—Champion: A hero who protects a major city, such as Spider-Man. 

▶ Rank 4—Legend: A hero who protects an entire nation, such as Captain America.

▶ Rank 5—Mythic: A hero who walks among the gods, such as Thor. 

▶ Rank 6—Cosmic: A hero who can influence the course of a galaxy, such as Captain Marvel. 

That seems like a fairly reasonable breakdown of power levels for a superhero game. It took them an extra update but they also got rid of Rank as a modifier - it appears to be entirely a non-mechanical thing now outside of determining how many power sets and individual powers a character has. 

Also they've cut way down on the number of modifiers and defenses and just the math and numbers in general. This is good as I don't think we should have do a lot of "x25" calculations in the course of the game - well, outside of knockback distance from a Hulk-punch anyway.

They also split Traits into Traits (mechanical effect) and Tags (non-mechanical RP-type stuff like "secret identity") Traits come into play per the rules for each one while Tags are something you can invoke for Karma points. Totally sensible. There's been some shuffling of things between those two and Powers and it mostly makes sense. 

The M in Marvel is now "Melee" instead of "Might" which explains my double take when I saw Cap had a 6 and She-Hulk had a 3 before I looked more closely. The updated character sheets are here by the way.

So there has definitely been positive change happening with the game. Of course, it ain't perfect - from the latest update (November 2022):

    Brawling

    This is a new power.

    The character is hard to shoot.

    Power Sets: None

    Prerequisites: None

    Action: None

    Duration: Permanent

    Effect: The character can use their Melee defense score against Agility attacks too.

Does that sound like "brawling"? If I said "my character has Brawling" is that what springs to mind? He's harder to shoot? There are several things like this where something just seems off in some way. The "d616" roll is now identified as "dMarvel" - I'm not kidding. I can't tell if the update was rushed or if that's a placeholder or if they just have a very different view of the universe than I do.

I'd say that's roughly a Villains & Vigilantes level of detail on the character sheet - not too bad.

I think the power flowcharts remain too which are not my favorite things. Still, it looks more interesting than the first draft. This is from one of the earlier updates but may be my favorite power idea out of the whole thing:

    New Rule: Tech Reliance

    ▶ Original rule page 59

    ▶ The character relies on technology for their powers. When they take damage that would render    them unconscious, they can instead lose one of their technology related power sets of their choice. (For this purpose only, all of a character’s utility powers are considered a single set.) 

     If the attack that would render the character unconscious is a fantastic success, the attacker gets to choose the power set to be lost instead.

     Assuming the character has access to parts and tools, lost power sets can be repaired after a battle by means of a challenging Logic check.

This is such a great example of a power or trait meshing with the genre - I have to figure out how to incorporate it into some other games now.

Despite this particular bit of awesome and the improvements noted above I keep coming back to one inescapable thought: Given the opportunity to run a superhero RPG would I choose this as the ruleset I want to use? The answer is pretty much always no. That's the problem. Even just looking at Marvel RPGs, well ...

• TSR's MSH (FASERIP) had a lot of innovative mechanics for the time and it still holds up pretty well. It's easy to understand, easy to play, and it just works the vast majority of the time. It takes a broad approach and sticks to it. 
• TSR's next effort, SAGA, is not one I have played but the people who like it *really* like it and will tell you all about it given half a chance. It clearly stuck with people and that tells me it had something special. 
• The Marvel Universe RPG - well this is the outlier. It's the one with the stones. Never played it, never heard much good about it, don't really care about checking it out.
• MWP's Marvel Heroic Roleplaying - here is another loose or narrative approach that can take a minute to grasp coming from other systems but it works really well and people who like it *really* like it - count me among them. It's not a Champions replacement it's a different kind of game entirely.

So out of 4 previous Marvel RPGs 3 of them are still well-loved to this day and yes I would happily run or play the two I know and I'm not opposed to learning the one I don't. They all feel more intuitive for a Marvel campaign than this new one does - and that's without even diving into Champions, Mutants & Masterminds, Villains & Vigilantes, ICONS, BASH, or any of the other license-free superhero games out there today. Hey, if someone offered to run it I would probably play it, but that's about as far as I can go. I'm sure it will have some great art and the layout will likely be fine but the rules ... hmmm.

I hope the final release version hits me differently but right now it's nowhere near the top of that list. 

Interesting Times - Part 2

 

As more came out about the OGL situation and various responses to it I thought most of it was pretty encouraging including WOTC's final back-down on the whole thing. A bad decision was made, the people/customers spoke, and the decision was altered based on this. That's how it's supposed to work, right? Ideally you stay in tune with your fans well enough to avoid the whole bad decision thing in the first place but sometimes companies think they know better or that people will just go along with whatever they decide. In this case I expect there will be some long-term damage but the general outcome is looking pretty good.

Even as this was taking shape though I was seeing a lot odd takes. In particular I saw several versions of "well now with the ORC/Black Flag/C7d20/etc. we can finally have an alternative to D&D" 

Say what?

Really?

I was seeing this mostly in comments on social media posts which just reinforces my opinion on the usefulness of those as a forum for discussion. 

How does someone play D&D for any length of time and not hear about Pathfinder ... of any edition? If you knew enough to care about the OGL kerfluffle how do you then -not- know about the vast majority of games released under it which are someone's version of D&D? I hardly ever see a conversation about D&D anymore where "OSR" does not make an appearance in some way. Outside of all of those there are Conan and Lord of the Rings (5E-flavored and non-5E flavored) and Forbidden Lands and Runequest and fantasy options for Savage Worlds, GURPS, and Hero. Dragon Age? Warhammer? Pendragon? Legend of the Five Rings? Palladium Fantasy? Chivalry and Sorcery? Some of these are fairly new and some have been around for decades. 

This ignores all of the non-fantasy options out there too that I went on about last time. 

We knew about a lot of other games out there back when our only sources of information were Dragon magazine and the local game stores. How does one remain ignorant of these things 25+ years into the age of the Information Superhighway? Going back to the days of 3rd edition WOTC itself published a different RPG with Star Wars  -surely some of the people playing now were around for that? Let's not even mention when TSR published multiple other RPG lines from old west to superheroes to sci-fi to post-apocalyptic alongside two -different- versions of D&D.

I suppose it boils down to a question or maybe a viewpoint - is your hobby "D&D" or is it "roleplaying games"? That's been a potential division for as long as I can remember but I always felt like the trend was for people to start with D&D and then branch out as they became aware of other options and things caught their interest or addressed shortcomings they found in D&D. I'm wondering if that flow is not as present these days. Maybe for a lot of people the pull of D&D is more of a social thing than recognizing the coolness of the RPG concept. 

I don't know. It's disheartening to some degree to think that this big influx of newer players over the last 9 years may stay in that "casual" state, never exploring beyond the current version of D&D. This light attachment does make me wonder how an edition change will go over with them. "Oh there's a new Player's Handbook? Can we just keep playing what we have"? I suspect that will be a common conversation next year. 

When you do something like a new edition of a game system it's an opportunity for players to look around and see what else is out there. When a new version of 40K is released there's always a fair amount of chatter about other miniatures games, for example. I hope that this mis-step by WOTC and Hasbro has at least started some conversations and exploration of things that might come into play when someone's current campaign wraps up or when "OneD&D" launches and people are thinking about making a change anyway. Time will tell I suppose.

Meme-ish Monday