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| I know, but we'll get to it I promise ... |
Let's talk about two systems for a minute. I'm prepping to run a Savage Worlds game and I just finished running a short M&M campaign in May. At one point I figured I would still be running M&M for most of this year but given a break point and an off-ramp my players chose to change to a different system. Why might that be?
In general, M&M is a more abstract system than many but Savage Worlds uses a lot of similar concepts so it may be the most similar game to M&M mechanics-wise on the market. Comparison points:
- M&M stats are a bonus to a d20 roll, SW stats are the type of die you roll
- M&M skills are a bonus to a d20 roll, SW skills are the type of die you roll
- M&M has Advantages and Complications that help customize your character. SW has Edges & Hindrances that do the same thing.
- M&M Powers are abstract effects-based abilities personalized by Descriptors - it's not just "ranged damage" it's a "fire blast". Savage Worlds has Powers as well and they are generic effects-based abilities personalized by "Trappings" in the same way.
- In both games Powers can be modified by various bonus effects or reduced effects that can increase or decrease the points cost (talking super powers here for Savage Worlds).
- In M&M points are spent to purchase stats, skills, advantages, and powers. SW has separate pools for each but points are spent on stats, skills, and powers and taking hindrances allow one to add edges.
As you can see they work in very similar ways. M&M in general can be more complicated and more detailed - SW is more broad strokes - but they are not that far apart in approach.
Then we get to combat. With M&M one rolls a d20 +/- relevant modifiers to equal or beat a target's defenses. In SW one rolls the relevant skill die (typically Shooting or Fighting). In melee the roll has to equal or beat a target's Parry defense. For ranged attacks one has to beat a fixed number (4) modified by range, speed, light conditions, size, and other possible modifiers or abilities. They are similar but SW treats ranged combat differently from melee to a degree though it ends up being a roughly similar process.
The effects of that hit though ... that's where our paths diverge.
- M&M hits mean the target rolls to resist the incoming damage. That damage is a static number based on the power or weapon used - this is the target number for the defender. The defender rolls a d20 modified by the relevant defense and the degree of success or failure determines how hard they were hit. It is possible, though unlikely, to take out another powerful opponent in one shot if they roll badly enough and they are hit hard enough.
- Savage Worlds hits have the attacker roll dice based on the power or weapon used. The total of those dice is then compared to the target's Toughness (plus any armor) and meeting or exceeding that Toughness will impose a Shaken or Wounded status on the target. It is possible, though not likely, to take out a powerful opponent in one shot with any attack or weapon in the game because damage uses exploding dice. Your pistol does 2d6? Roll a "6" and keep on rolling a "6" and you can inflict 5/10/20 wounds in a system where most things will not exceed a 3 wound capacity.
I think this is a basic, visceral difference and one that is not readily apparent just reading the games. Having run and played a lot of RPG sessions over the last 40+ years I can tell you players like rolling big numbers! Having run a long Deadlands campaign in Savage Worlds in the last few years I can tell you players get very excited when that one damage die just keeps exploding. It's a triumphal moment that everyone can see and it's hard to replicate when your damage system depends on someone rolling low to fail rather than rolling high to succeed and I think that's where M&M loses some people.
It's not just in comparison to Savage Worlds. Most RPGs these days have some kind of stat & skill system and have players roll to hit in combat and then roll for damage - and higher is better. This is from D&D (going all the way back) to related offshoots from Runequest to Pathfinder to other approaches like Traveller, Champions/Hero System, GURPS, and various Star Wars games. Even Powered by the Apocalypse games tend to use a fixed damage system where a bigger Harm number hurts more. There are RPG's where both attack and defender roll - one to hit and one to dodge or deflect a hit - with opposed rolls, but the attacker, if successful, tends to be the one rolling for damage.
M&M is one of the few RPGs where damage is a) the result of a defense roll and b) directly determined by the result of that defense roll and with experience in both approaches over the last few decades I would say it is just less satisfying to most players. With M&M you know that your possible results are 1-20 plus your Power level. A critical hit can make it worse for the target, and of course you can build up that effect level in as many ways as possible before you strike, but it's still the other guy rolling vs. a target number. It's a big deviation from the way RPGs in general work and I think it mutes the excitement people have in M&M combat scenes.
A more specific example:
- Strong Guy in M&M has a +8 Fighting and a +12 Strength. Enemy Robot has Toughness 10 so if hit it rolls a d20 + 10 to beat a 27 target number in M&M 3E. Most likely he will take a bruise and maybe a stun. Maybe some Knockback too. A 27+ means it takes nothing but a 7 or less means it is out of the fight, with various damage conditions popping up in between.
Odds here are not too hard to figure if it matters to you. A critical hit will shift things up a bit but the basics there are a 35% chance to knock out the robot and about a 20% chance to do nothing.
- In Savage Worlds Enemy Robot might have Toughness 15 while Strong Guy punches for 3d10. a 14 or less total means Guy does nothing, a 15 shakes the 'Bot, a 19 = shaken + a wound, 23 ups it to 2 wounds, and a 27 ups it to 3 wounds and most likely out.
Odds are trickier to figure in Savage Worlds as a few 6's in there can jump the damage up a lot and a raise on the to-hit roll adds another d6 into the pool for damage so it can snowball quickly. That said multiple dice also makes it a bell curve so it tends to stay in the middle range
- Then just for fun let's do it in Champions: Strong Guy has a 60 Strength so punches for 12d6 damage - that means you get to roll a fistful of dice and add them up looking for the total (for Stun Damage) and for specific numbers (for Body Damage) figure out some knockback (and see if that did any more damage) then compare those numbers to Robot's Physical Defense and start marking off Stun and Body if you exceeded it. Then you also compare it to it's Con score and see if you Stunned them. It's great! With tons of dice flying around the table and multiple calculations on each roll it feels like every swing that connects is impactful to say the least. Is it faster? No. But sometimes speed is overrated.
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| See?! |
Now I love M&M and this is in no way a call for a hit point system to be added to M&M. Savage Worlds , though, does show that a non-hit point system can still embrace a "roll your damage dice" approach . I suspect that if there were ever a radical shake-up with M&M that this would be a good area to consider for a change. I don't know exactly how it would work* and it would take a big rethinking of how defenses work in the game. With 2nd - 3rd - 4th editions really being refinements of a solid framework I would not expect to see anything like this soon - but it's something to think about.
*First rough idea: Attacker rolls to hit like now and if they do hit then we flip the Toughness roll around from how it works today: attacker rolls Effect level + d20 vs. a target of the opponent's Toughness + something. Yeah, it looks a lot like Savage Worlds, I know - but I know that works and it keeps things fairly similar to the current M&M approach. The main problem is that it means everyone is "rolling a d20 for damage" all the time and I'm not sure that changes it up enough to get people excited. The real jump would be rolling a fistful of dice based on power level of the attack but that's a whole other level of change.
